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Electrical

Mains sockets not on RCD. New CU Installed Oct 2013. Part P certificate issued

Anonymous user 28/02/2024 - 3.41 PM

In Oct 2013 I had a new 6 way MK split load twin RCD Consumer Unit installed to replace the original 4 fuse "wooden" fuse box in my 1928 built house. I had soon after moving in replaced the old wire fuse holders with MCB fused of the plug in style. The house was rewired some time before I bought it (bought 1988) with the red/black T&E. There are still traces of the old removed VIR cable lying under the floor boards. All sockets in the house /garage come to a single 32A type B MCB in the CU. For some reason (no explanation given at the time) the sockets circuit is not on the protected side of the MCB. I only discovered this a few weeks ago after watching a NARGY Utube video about CU's and performing a regular 3 monthly RCD test. Having pressed the RCD test button I was very surprised to find that none of the equipment on the sockets circuit went off. There are no notes on the Part P certificate to advise that the mains sockets are not RCD protected. Armed with the knowledge that the socket circuit did not get cut off It now seems obvious whey the Looking at the CU MCB’s Are there circumstances allowed where mains sockets do not need to be RCD protected. I would have though that given the CU install date of Oct 2013 that they should be on the protected side on the RCD. Peculiarly there are two lighting circuits (up/down – makes sense) and these have been correctly wire RCD1 upstairs lights / RCD2 downstairs lights. It’s just that none of the sockets in the house / garage are RCD protected. Does this meet the Ed. 17 regs. I suspect that as no new circuits were installed the need to have the sockets RCD protected does arise. It would however have been good practice to inform me that there is a reason why they have not been RCD protected. I do have a RCD’d socket in garage that I use for the lawn mover and pond pump. Having read about two RCD’s on a circuit I wonder if this was causing some form of issue. It would have been good for the Electrician to let me know this was the issue causing the whole socket circuit (55 sockets) being unable to be RCD’d. Peculiarly I now only have the single socket (Oven Isolator switch) on the Oven circuit which is via one of the CU RCDs. Update 18:46 1 Jan 2019 To clarify - Its "only" the Mains sockets that are NOT RCD protected. Other three circuits - RCD1 Oven/Upstairs lights, RCD2 Downstairs lights. CU Tails to the Meter are 25mm's. Tails on Supplier side from Meter to Main 100amp Bakelite fuse/breaker seem to be thinner circumference - poss 16mm area. Earth bonding appears to be 10mm to the previous/existing earth point which is part of the Suppliers Bakelite earthing - marked "Earthing Terminal PME System".

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7 Answers

Anonymous user

It would be a simple process to move the Ring Main 32A breaker onto the RCD protected side of your Distribution Board. However it may have been that there was an Earth / Line , Neutral/ Line or Neautral Earth fault that rendered the installer unable to put your ring on the RCD without it tripping. If this was the case then it should have been rectified and your installation is in need of immediate attention. My advice would be to call out an NICEIC electrician and ask him to transfer your 32A break to the RCD protected side of your DB identifying and correcting any faults found.
Answered2 January 2019
4

Camm Electrical Solutions Limited

Rating: 5 out of 5
Birmingham
Regulation 411.3.3 contains the statement An exception to (i) is permitted where, other than for an installation in a dwelling, a documented risk assessment determines that RCD protection is not necessary. Importantly, "other than for an installation in a dwelling" - therefore, no exceptions are permitted. Also, there are other companies who are equally reputable and have just as good quality electricians other than NICEIC.
Answered3 January 2019
4

DEACON ELECTRICAL SERVICES

Rating: 5 out of 5
Grimsby
Whoever the clown was who fitted this c/u has not got a clue. 2013 you say? I’m pretty sure you should have had ALL circuits RCD/RCBO protected. He has got it all the wrong way round! You don’t mention Earth bonding to Gas/water etc normal size should be 10mm. Meter tails 25mm main earth 16mm. What does it say on the EIC you were given? By omitting RCDs this is a deviation from the Regulations. There is a box on the cert which says ‘any deviations from BS7671’ Was it notified to Building Control and did you get confirmation from BC ? I think you may have a neutral to earth fault on the sockets, which would not trip the RCD if it was connected to the other side. I would suggest getting an EICR done on the installation to establish what state this installation is in. Good luck. My edit... only the sockets that are not RCD protected? I would ask why have they not been? As they should be.
Answered1 January 2019
3

JK Electrical

Rating: 5 out of 5
Glasgow
There is a high probability that the charlatan who fitted this board did so without having first carried-out all the essential pre-installation tests. Had he done so, he would surely have discovered that a neutral to earth fault was present on the ring final circuit. If he didn't carry-out all the essential post-installation tests, the fault would only have become apparent when he energised the new consumer unit and one of the RCDs immediately tripped. In this scenario, he would have taken the circuit off the RCD and relocated the circuit breaker so to disguise the fault. He obviously couldn't be bothered to trace the fault and remedy it. Perhaps he didn't know how or doesn't own a multifunction tester. Not only was this highly irresponsible since it leaves the installation in a dangerous condition, it is also a clear breach of the wiring regulations. A consumer changeover if done correctly, will take-up most of the working day. How long was he on site? Do you recall him doing any testing prior to the changeover, or did he just pull the main cut-out and then get battered-in? My advice would be to a) have an EICR undertaken as a matter of urgency, and b) don't hire this cowboy operator again.
Answered13 January 2019
3

Circuit 1 Ltd

Rating: 5 out of 5
Lairg
If I were you I would follow the advice given and get a full Electrical Installation Condition Report (IECR) carried out. It sounds to me like there may be other horrors hiding under the floors. An EICR would confirm that all wiring and fittings are compliant with BS 7671 - 2018. Good Luck, I hope you get it all sorted out.
Answered3 January 2019
2

Anonymous user

Defo needs changing over in my personal view socket outlets are the highest risk for shock as you just don't know what's getting plugged in. Get that changed over to the rcd side and a minor works issued. Even better have a periodic inspection undertaken on your home installation for any other school boy errors!!!
Answered6 January 2019
2

Anonymous user

Post a photo of your board. Not really sure what you are asking. There are certain conditions that would allow non RCD protection but not generally found in domestic installs
Answered1 January 2019
1